tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post4245907442832094249..comments2023-10-21T07:55:34.085-04:00Comments on RevCyn: Nickel and Dimed in Bivocational MinistryCynthia L. Landrumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02858232066200226342noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post-73492907169684887182015-01-05T17:58:54.262-05:002015-01-05T17:58:54.262-05:00Cynthia -
Thank you for your post. I agree with ...Cynthia - <br /><br />Thank you for your post. I agree with Scott that bivocational ministry is certainly more common among poor communities. The relationship of theological/denominational tendencies in these contexts is an interesting one.<br />Bivocationality will be the reality for increasing numbers of those serving in ministry, whether seminary trained or not, ordained, licensed or not. <br />I think there are four crucial issues: <br />1) how will we help these ministry leaders identify and thrive in alternative income streams?<br />2) How will we educate for a lifetime of ministry given the new economic realities?<br />3) How will we help clergy find collegial community when they're not serving in 'traditional' structures and perhaps have less control over their time (again, a historic challenge for racial/ethinic minority pastors when "ministerial alliance" meetings are held on Tuesday at 10am or the like.<br />4) How will we help congregations and denominations understand and adjust to these new realities?<br />I've been working on these issues for a few years, and am launching a new nfp - www.iVitalMinistry.org to address them.<br />I'd love to have you as a conversation partner. Again, thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post-7726118379534787162014-04-16T20:33:15.549-04:002014-04-16T20:33:15.549-04:00How to reconcile these divergent realities? Bivoca...How to reconcile these divergent realities? Bivocational ministry might work better in marginal communities because those are places where life is a patchwork quilt anyway, and therefore, the families know how to support such situations. They might also have different expectations about family necessities, such as being okay with (or resigned to) fast food rather than slow cooking. That said, the strength of families in these communities is that the harder times get, the closer families rally around a single activity.Elz Curtisshttp://www.politywonk.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post-32292843614703453472014-04-14T20:50:00.475-04:002014-04-14T20:50:00.475-04:00Thanks for this very thoughtful article. Thanks for this very thoughtful article. Rev. Myke Johnsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14676095964462186701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post-25257987583935980612014-04-14T12:42:33.355-04:002014-04-14T12:42:33.355-04:00Perhaps bivocational ministry would be more viable...Perhaps bivocational ministry would be more viable if the expense of training was carried by the UUA (funded through congregation dues) instead of by the ministers themselves?<br /><br />Of course, it does not solve the problems of the fact that ministers need money to live.Christine S.https://www.blogger.com/profile/06692309060238822834noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post-87655191713392379532014-04-13T17:53:30.639-04:002014-04-13T17:53:30.639-04:00Cynthia wrote:
A lot of bivocational ministry I th...Cynthia wrote:<br /><i>A lot of bivocational ministry I think also takes place in denominations where the ministry isn't a required graduate degree field. To talk about that, and the associated cost to our ministry of a four-year (or three or five) professional degree and the associated student loans opens up a whole new can of worms.</i><br /><br /><br />Cynthia - we have a system for denominational religious educator credentialing that allows for different education levels obtained -- no degree, bachelor's degree, master's degree.<br /><br />Perhaps it's time to ask some questions about ministerial credentialing and education? Maybe we should have bachelor's level ministerial fellowship and graduate level ministerial fellowship?<br /><br />This would allow for smaller congregations to call ministers who can work part-time as ministers because they are not burdened with heavy student loan debt.Steve Caldwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12333184436301854794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post-51069610256625413722014-04-13T08:31:39.013-04:002014-04-13T08:31:39.013-04:00It is dread-ful and complex; frustration is approp...It is dread-ful and complex; frustration is appropriate. The supply of settlements, their stability and their compensation are all reasons I did not go into search after my last pastorate ended 10 years ago. Nonprofit management in D.C. has been very good to me, and has made use of many of the skills I acquired in the ministry. <br /><br />But I do think something has to give. Obligatory graduate education? Educational self-funding? Something else? (I have a blog post, long-tinkered, with one idea.)<br /><br />I advocate for church planting, but that's for the health of the UU ecosytem, not as an employment stream. And having seen lawyers with the same complaints, I don't think we're unijue.<br /><br />And it won't just "work out" for "the best people."Scott Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03838480302407811239noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post-22260379022296675032014-04-13T07:29:49.427-04:002014-04-13T07:29:49.427-04:00Hi Scott,
I agree with the fact that you were prom...Hi Scott,<br />I agree with the fact that you were promoting discussion of it, and that discussion should be promoted. <br /><br />A lot of bivocational ministry I think also takes place in denominations where the ministry isn't a required graduate degree field. To talk about that, and the associated cost to our ministry of a four-year (or three or five) professional degree and the associated student loans opens up a whole new can of worms. <br /><br />I think we will continue to have part-time work, and more of it, but with it structured the way it is right now, it's not sustainable for ministers, at least not this one. It's a trend that fills me with frustration and dismay. Cynthia L. Landrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02858232066200226342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7690830057835669205.post-34617841994433726792014-04-12T21:59:56.926-04:002014-04-12T21:59:56.926-04:00I hear your points, but something doesn't jive...I hear your points, but something doesn't jive. First, bivocational ministry (across denominations) so often takes place in poor or marginal communities that to call it classist misses the evidence. Second, while some (presumably few) bivocational ministers say they prefer it to a fully-stipendary ministry, I have to think the reality is bivo or nothing, both for the church (which may also want fully-stipendary ministry, amd may have a history of it) and the minister. I've been there.<br /><br />I promote discussion about bivocationality because it happens, but with little discussion create a "don't ask/don't tell" onus and possibly shame, and that's the worst outcome of all.Scott Wellshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03838480302407811239noreply@blogger.com